Things that would make a lot of sense! feat. Hally

[Hally]

Hello VS and fellow players

In my ever flowing process of rambling off ideas i sometimes try and make a thread about it, this is just my ideas and thoughs and while not everything might be possible or even good for everyone, its based on my perspective, so please feel free to counter arguments and bring your own, but please know that im not trying to take anything away from others, im just trying to fuel my own agenda

Bigger and badder mobs, this has been talket about for a long time, and some have been added, im just after more, this time ill try and be very specific. Over the universe the most common armor coverage is cut/stab/impact and suprisingly few mobs on toulan has this, but the native baraka armor has decent coverage on this. The mob on Toulan that matches best is Qaffaz, which has Impact -- 50%, Cut -- 40%, Stab -- 10% this makes the mob as the most ideal grind mob, the biggest issue thou is the lack of dense spawn outside the wave event, and the relative low hp they have, with the stalker having only 660 hp, what i suggest is a "young elite" version of the mob as we know it from other mobs mostly on caly, these mobs typicaly has damage around the young to mature but quite a bit more hp then biggest "normal" version. It could look something like this:

Qaffaz young elite

Health level: medium/tough (preferable over 1000 hp under 2500)
Damage potential: small/limited (as this would make people be able to be covered with rifi ME/baraka or similar) surely not over 40 dam
Stats are tricky since i dont know fully how they affect mobs, but stamina would be 100+ to get the hps up

Mob density, it would be amazing with relative tight spawn but not to high agression, i and other hunters very much enjoy not having to run around to find the mobs, but also not being swamped by a ton of mobs all the time (unless we choose to gather them up)
200+ mobs in the spawn and just the one density would be amazing, i personaly dont feel the need for another boss wave, this would be grind/skill area.

Loot: This is ofc tricky as it seems its hard to balance and MA aint just handing out goodies all the time, but something interresting in the mix for sure would help, this type of mob should have the ability to drop items of worth with markup, that also have some tt to it, ESI, Fuse, Guns, this could also be a place to allow us to loot Jadid armor, or any unreleased higher end weapons. (yes everyone wants cool UL items and all that Jazz, trying to be realistic here)

I personaly feel that Toulan is ready for something like this, and is thers something nice to be had in the end, the perfect, also this ties with the fact there was never a Qaffaz daily, this could be fixed at the same time.

CUHOF: This is complex, and im guessing things are allready being looked, but one thing that i keep comming back to is spare nawacore parts, i have hundreds and hundreds of parts locked away in storage (no mk2 B left) it feels so wrong to tt these, could we get somekind/anykind of use for these. In the same subject this goes for any item thats part of something, but seems to be spare, like common solo key part for lotus temple, the new tintures, or other similar items.

Shared wave event, id love to be able to do a wave event similar to gorgon on NI or SandKing on Caly, a big event thats almost impossible alone, but fun and exiting as team, the nature of Toulan and the fact that many players are lower lvl means that this ofc should be balanced to fit whats here, mobs and bosses needs to be high hp but not to high damage. (my dream is that a item can be brought to the Mazir skeleton at Sandy Shores South to revive it, maybe tying it with the wave next to it as guardians,and possibly 3 different difficulties) maybe once the wave is completed, place an item and start a harder wave and then a 3rd and if a certain item is the sacrificed the Mazir revives ?) possibly with mini bosses at the end of each step.

Hally over and out!

 

[Littlestar b-k]

I can agree with most of what your suggesting except for one thing.

If there is going to be a elite mob of any kind it should drop different loot then the normal version of said mob.
Why do you ask? Because those grinding on them will loot all the mu items like hide/nails etc.. as the bigger hp means more tt value in loot thus more of the hides etc.. too. Thus leaving alot less for those hunting the normal ones. They will also loot bigger amounts faster meaning us lower dps hunters have almost no chance.

Toulan specific loot has always had issues and to be honest they are far from fixed but ALOT better then it used to be. Introducing those mobs means those specific resources will be looted quickly and then stop dropping for x amount of time. Not sure why that is but it is.
Might be they have to be crafted or sold to TT before they start dropping in normal amounts again.
This is my expirience anyway.

 

[Eleni Von Estlla]

Alright fasten your seabelt here.

If i understand well, what Le Hally is suggesting is a reheated 1000HP low damage imp/cut/stab Qaffaz, so more or less an Atrox.

There are a few issues to me, which i brought forward in the background, but since both Hally and BK put the finger on it, ill voice them in here.


Level
One of my problem is that most mobs on Toulan are low threat level, or more accurately, low level. And we all know what this means, even regardless of its HP count.
I have litterally no idea how a Level on a Mob is decided.
You would think it is related to threat level, which is an explosive cocktail of its HP, aggression, damage amount, attack speed, regen, damage type, favorite colour, scent and %damage, etc etc.
But this is not always true.

You can litterally end up with a low level mob, extremely aggressive, with only two or even one damage type, meaning more prone to ignore your armor, and present a challenging HP, meaning more exposure time to it (if i wasnt clear, that means death).
Exemple to this be your Bahri stalker for exemple, only up to Lv10 with cut/stab at 50/50 and 1000HP.

Or you can have a Lv23 Atrox young, same HP, high aggro aswell, with no more damage amount than bahri, even easier, divided by three instead of two, as for imp/cut/stab (But that means death too!)

I personally can hunt atrox youngs in hoplite armor, but couldnt hunt bahri stalkers in hoplite armor.
Though there are 13 levels less on Bahri stalker than we have on Atrox young.
Bahri stalker being 98HP/level when atrox young be 68HP/level. (and that is bad for both!)
Atrox has higher regen, ill admit, but is much more forgiving on the defense, so i cannot wrap my head around the fact most mobs are so low level here.


So to get back on the Mighty Qaffaz topic, since it is a mob that already exist, as for Lv8 Qaffaz Stalker 660HP, I am a bit sceptical as for why or how would that be beneficial, as it would flirt with a shy Lv12 or 13, at best? And that is being generous. YES! I do am generous!



Loot
Now it is a good thing we are on Qaffaz, since they were my lab rats last weekend, for my little tests.
Lets call exotic loots what is actual mob loot, like hide and animal parts such as qaffaz tails and nails.

For every 1000 ped ammo, i was looting average 10ped of exotic loots, at about similar amounts.
~3ped hides, ~2ped nails and ~3ped tails, ~ish. 10PED! (Maphs..)
This means 1% of the loot are actual exotic loots, and the rest be shrapnels, oils in most volume, then some other generic loots such as focus lens (nice MU too), extractors and such.
This is clearly not enough to cover up a sustained hunt, since only hides sells well, as for animal components, it is much more targetted and needs a crafter, for which a 200% bought value must give an even more appealing reason for the crafter to actually being willing to craft the craftable item. (Hope you had your seabelt!)
If this is not the case, then you only end up selling your hides, which are an almost a garanteed sale and at the moment, if i am correct, are 200%.
So at 200%, this be 0.33% of your loot, being about 3ped is 3PED MU looted every 1000PED.
Add to this a sprinkle of leather extractors, and a pinch of focus lenses.


So getting a higher HP Qaffaz, would certainly not increase the exotic loot volume granted, as BK said, but mostly the generic ones, very likely shraps and oils.
Doubling a Qaffaz HP to put it at 1000HP would then draw your MU looted of garanteed sales at not 0.33% but 0.15% hence 1.5PED every 1000PED looted, due to wider cycling. (Harry likes!)
Only benefit to a higher HP maturity, like it is the case with our Thawr stalker, be to drop an EXCLUSIVE item, just like thawr stalker, and only stalker drops the Nushka blade. It is beautiful, but L and need tremendeous efforts to loot. So no one even ask about it.

So, to land back on what i mentioned in the other suggestion thread, about the mini bosses, and other stuffs: without revisiting the actual benefits of a "bigger" and "harder" mob, i would first want to see or be certain that there would be an exlusive "chance" bound to this specific mob, and not just another recipe for muscle oil.
Or we are landing again on Marauders and Queens.

So far the best loot ever is looted at the freebie gardens on Lv3 slug mobs and in Cuhof 01, up to 50ped MU a pop, without even counting the global, nor the 3000% Nawa cells!
So Qaffaz Elite would have to do better than that for me to drop my Z12 Barballastacus.


Rifi ME // Baraka

Damage potential: small/limited (as this would make people be able to be covered with rifi ME/baraka or similar)

Okay so here your turned the kettle ON

Its only you and me both with Baraka as for now, but of course, i really, really hope to see more sets collected in 2022.
But as i voiced before, Baraka actually ONLY covers up for Qaffaz. And Mokhat, since they are the same mob, minus a second pattern attack 80% (I think) impact on Mohkat.
I actually die on tabtab punies, since they have 25% penetration. And this is not a joke, it happened!
But Pixi works great too, so lets call for a Pixi mob.

Without penetration, Baraka is a real collander for Toulan. And that "burn" is just litterally wasted points.
And i did put a fair fight into the revision of the Rifi ME in the past, which was a litteral copy/pasted Adjusted Pixi on release.

My call on this is again, is not to hatch new mobs to match our first UL tools, but to, in the future, get tools to match the actual mobs.
In my very much honest opinion, i am extremely happy and relieved that we FINALLY have seen our first UL gear on Toulan.
I certainly would not have put so much efforts into getting the set, if i didnt sincerly think this.

But to me, it is also a hope to see more "matching" gear, especially when it comes to armors, to actually target what the planet throws at us.
If it means to completely get rid of all the armors that currently exist on Toulan, and rebuilding it all from ground up, then i would say, be it - because we nearly have as many armor sets as we have mobs, and all of them are rated under an adjusted pixi set.
And lets put the weapons in this basket while it is out, and grant our Lv52 Wahesh a tiny wee better gun drop than a Lv6 dart gun.


Last Word
Last point, and you are free to hop off the bus, but only if you undo your seabelt first!

So even if it sounds like i am completely against the idea, i actually like the idea a lot.
Only if things unfold in an order that makes sense, as for higher risk for higher reward ; and not higher HP for *crossed fingers* a super big hof of almighty epic everlasting shrapnels.

What i want to see is the following : Progress.

Progress in skillgains.
Progress in loot(able), both distribution and itemization. (i made up that word, hope you had your seabelt still).
Progress in the progress. Like, new stuffs that actually make sense of acquiring and justify sustained hunting.

We have seen epic quest chain, Nadira, and inimaginable (Made that up too!) missions and progress during last year.
So i hope it keeps going that way, and even if there are hiccups, that we only learn and make even better progress.

In the end, it is litterally impossible to make everyone happy, not even me!



This was just a little shime-in, but let me know if i need to elaborate.

Hope this helps though, or makes sense at least,
E~

 

[Heidi Stassinopolis]

Why are you all obsessed with bigger and bigger mobs? All they do is provide bigger stacks of shrap.

I think it would be better to continue with more story led missions and tweak the loot drops from existing mobs before launching into this "we want more and bigger till we get bored with it and then want even more and even bigger."

 

[Hally]

Why are you all obsessed with bigger and bigger mobs? All they do is provide bigger stacks of shrap.

I think it would be better to continue with more story led missions and tweak the loot drops from existing mobs before launching into this "we want more and bigger till we get bored with it and then want even more and even bigger."

Its a good and valid question, its mainly to do with the understanding i have of how the game works, in reality its guesswork, but i see a limiting factor in how it is now, thers a few factors on Toulan that in my book hinders growth.
Loot is very hard to fix, especialy of the mobs that does indeed exist is working against the system they exist in. Also at the current point Toulan dosnt offer much to medium to high lvl players, especialy not those that seek to advance their avatars.
And while i do enjoy the storylines, they are usualy faster to solve then they are to create so thers need for fillers, inbetween.
To the best of my knowledge its a MA thing, what we loot and when we loot it, but the mobs created can be tweaked in such a way that they create more chances, or better odds if you will. LS has an exelent point that we dont want the mobs to create a situation where marked is flooded, but also just now, its near impossible to even collect enought resources of certain mob parts and hides to event start skilling.
So ya its complex.

Also to the best of my understanding for planets to grow, for MA to allow "things" and PP´s to be allowed to develop certain things, we need growth, and certain thresholds needs to be met. And i did start by saying this fits my agenda, it might not be for all, some might even wish for things to be exactly where it is, because they have a good thing going, or that it fits them better

 

[Heidi Stassinopolis]

Ok Hally I agree with what you are saying, but I think big mobs give more junk honestly.
Today I did the Bahri wave spawn and hides and skins were dropping until wave 3 when the alphas and stalkers appeared and guess what no more hides or skins and I do have a good set up and skills. I even took down the Bahri King (first time ever I solo'd it and multiple deaths!) and he dropped lots of oils like brain and panc when he globaled for me. So I wonder if this hints towards the skew of loot tables??

I think a qaffaz maurader might be good though admittedly.

I don't have a problem looting most hides and toulan things but I can't meet the demand in the shop no matter how much I grind so I just do the daily missions and restock the shelves every day which suits my agenda I guess.

Lets keep discussing though I like this thread so far.

 

[Hally]

Ya i agree its a nice talk. From my perspective there needs to be atleast the illusion of hitting something nice, a big part of why i have traversed and plowed thru all of Toulan for 1,5+ year, is the exploration and the hope to uncover hidden treasures, the results have been a bit meager, there wasnt to much to find, which is why VS taking over and introducing new things has been more a less a blessing. Id love for more things to be here a bit faster, but also have understanding of and respect for the process. I basically feel there could be more things to attract medium to high players here, and especially more things to keep them here grinding.

On a good day i cycle 15.000peds and i know players that cycle close to 50k a day, thats hard to do on Toulan, with current setup. Everything dosnt have to be set up for the ubers (not me) i agree, but it wouldnt hurt if they could also carve themselves a home here on the special space rock

 

[Felix Kiste]

Ok Hally I agree with what you are saying, but I think big mobs give more junk honestly.
Today I did the Bahri wave spawn and hides and skins were dropping until wave 3 when the alphas and stalkers appeared and guess what no more hides or skins and I do have a good set up and skills. I even took down the Bahri King (first time ever I solo'd it and multiple deaths!) and he dropped lots of oils like brain and panc when he globaled for me. So I wonder if this hints towards the skew of loot tables??

As I made a wave my experiences where similar. Wave 1-3 have been good and all after that felt kind of worse, especially the Boss.
Even with a higher end Armor, the Boss at the End hit like a Truck. My luck I had some support by a healer, His Mod EMT-2600 was glowing and thank god there was no crit.
I told him better to stay a few feet away to run, because the wave can stop fast and the Half dead Boss Mob may disappear than if nobody is there.

How about the possibility to create a name Specified Wave Boss, like ''Mob Name (Wave Boss)'' and give em a slightly friendlier damage range? You could take the originals for the events, and give people which are able to do the waves even solo up to the final Boss, the chance to finalise him too maybe.

The wave time out Time (if you leave the area or even die) is in my opinion way to short and creates a bunch of time and non finalising pressure.

 

[sherwood]

Nice thinking in this thread, actually I'm very happy of the general setup with my viceroy, FAP-110 and my skills, I can play easy everywhere, just takeing some care about wahesh over guardian maturity.

I agree with everyone and personally I think that Toulan is in need of a step up maybe not tomorrow but not in far future: (I'm going to repeat myself) more land!, a quadrant west side would be nice were should be "Sabad (ask Eleni) city" should be and implement the wonderful Eleni's concept-idea of a Tremors-movie-like mob coming out of the desert that could be managed as summoned mob gathering resources or boss after a wave or occasional/random spawn.
Another interesting suggestion that I found in the old threads is about the Killing Zoo (Fnf that could be implemented) this idea could resolve fast and quick many of the upper posts ideas: make a qaffaz daily, new higher maturity mobs etc.

 

[sherwood]

Fnf in the upper post is clickable! I thought to post the entire URL anyway that is.
I checked my old screenies: I live in a apartment on Toulan since 11 months, and I'm Toulan resident since 15 months now. I really want the best possible for this little but wonderful planet, all the citizens and tourists.

 

[Littlestar b-k]

Today I did the Bahri wave spawn and hides and skins were dropping until wave 3 when the alphas and stalkers appeared and guess what no more hides or skins and I do have a good set up and skills.

This is what i mean and i don't think it is because you hit higher matureties. I have the exact problem on the bahri spawn over the bridge near the Sandy tp. At the start of hunt hides are dropping and 30 min later they just stop. (I think we hit a limit on hides or something)
The only mob that keeps dropping hides over the entire hunting run seem to be Khaffash and Jeef Qaher.
I can't speak for Duhol, Thawr and Wahesh as i don't hunt them.

 

[Eleni Von Estlla]

A bit of personal assessment here.

As i said above, why a reheated mob?
Dsec has already reused microwaved mobs, and people pestering for bigger mobs have gotten the marauders already.
Are those being hunted extensively?
Have they brought anything new?

Second point is room.
Want more bosses, more waves, more bigger mobs?
But where would you put them?
There has been the bahri wave added now, thats 6 waves and their bosses now.
Enough already.
I think miners are already under stress, lets not add insult to injury, especially if this would fill near to no purpose.

My personal word of wisdom : give it some time!!

With now three areas to be developed, i can only try to understand how stressful that may be, to actually deliver, and deliver quality.
Added to this TIME and RESSOURCES put on top of the efforts, i would personally put quality before quantity.
We have had 6 years of nothing, we can wait more.
If we are now wishing for another copy pasted existing mob, serving no challenge, no loot nor lore purpose, i would rather not see it hatching.

Now now, overtime, and we are talking in years here, i would indeed rather see the rest of History develop.

We have been left with three major unexplored routes, at the end of Beladcom:

1. Elara
2. The Mages
3. Sabad City

Last year, and it is ONLY a filmsy year, we have seen major developement involving one of this three route.
Eyes to the skies people!
Though it mostly impacts Dsec9, for which i can understand, but generously merges well with Toulan, and actually involves and asks people to actually visit Toulan.
This fills one major step, get people to make their first visit on the planet.

Now what i personally would say is, aim for the stars!
Why would you want another microwaved mob?
Lets just explore the two major routes that we have left!!
The Mages made this mess we are living in, so clearly, anything is possible. Besides, Azraq and the Witch do know about magic, and are obviously tied to the Mages.
Sabad City has been buried in History. It may aswell been litterally buried.
It has been mentioned to play archeology, wouldnt you rather find a sunken city? And get more lands? And find forgotten treasures?
And a totally different concept, as for a preserved non-irradiated area to explore, with dangers lying in the dark?

Another point is, yes we have overgrown the planet. Yes we have killed the same mobs for years. But lets not forget that for newer players, or tourists, it is the beginning of a brand new and epic journey; so lets not kick the sandcastle too much, and try to preserve what we have.

Last point, since we are trying to be realistic, is UE5.
If i try put myself in a developers shoes, i wouldnt want to create new things knowing ill have to redo it all in a year or two.
So if it is to deliver, just to say we delivered, and copy paste stuffs to make it easier, i personally would rather wait and get to serious work once the switch has been done.
Then and only then you can go and tackle new mobs, areas, cities, etc etc.
Brand new game

So for both the sake of time and ressources, i would personally put quality before quantity.

And if that means to sit and wait for another couple or few years before any major developement, i be happy with that, because it would then be well worth the wait.

E~

 

[Littlestar b-k]

Sabad City has been buried in History. It may aswell been litterally buried.
It has been mentioned to play archeology, wouldnt you rather find a sunken city? And get more lands? And find forgotten treasures?
And a totally different concept, as for a preserved non-irradiated area to explore, with dangers lying in the dark?

Big fat yes to this. I've been wanting a new area sinds i first heard VS is taking over and make suggestions about this as well.
I would also hate to see another copy/paste on this area like alot of content universe wide is these days.

And noooooooooooooo i can't wait for another few years , they gave us a finger and now i want the hand
( Don't take this last sentence too seriously)

 

[Heidi Stassinopolis]

I think miners are already under stress, lets not add insult to injury, especially if this would fill near to no purpose.

Agreed and obviously the answer is

Sabad City has been buried in History. It may aswell been litterally buried.
It has been mentioned to play archeology, wouldnt you rather find a sunken city? And get more lands? And find forgotten treasures?
And a totally different concept, as for a preserved non-irradiated area to explore, with dangers lying in the dark?

I think more space when the VS team can reasonably incorporate it is the way forward but lets all calm down and enjoy what we have.

 

[DarkMoonEnigma]

I can't weigh in on any one thing being a part of the VS Team, but I'll just say that this discussion is brilliant, and I know that Ant and Kendra are reading it too ... you guys bring great ideas to the table, and when you bring lore into the mix, it's even more brilliant because Ant is very much inspired by lore and storyline and wants to continue connecting everything together, and that means all 3 locations ...

As you all know by now, Ant is very calculated and measured with how he approaches development, because for him, everything has to have a purpose, and all resources put to good use ... he will never create content just to create content, it's not his way ... everything has to be connected in some way ... stop and think about the activities and how the components affect other things.

I know that Ant doesn't want to ignore any of the main professions, which is why he gives attention to hunting, mining and crafting ... all three are important for a cohesive and evolving economy. Our development is progressive with what time is available to get into it, and every level player is given consideration. Giving the economy a boost was critical, but it was also important to give attention to our new player involvement because that's a big part of how we grow the population. In the course of doing that, more attention was given to the mid-level player, because we want our new players to also be progressive in their advancement ... player retention is important to us.

There is activity for the mid-higher level player, but not yet at the level that is available on other planets. However, how many can easily take on the new higher level creatures we added not that long ago solo ... or, do you take the time to team them?

• Khaffash Slayer, Khaffash Marauder, Khaffash Queen
• Duhol Slayer, Duhol Marauder, Duhol Queen
• Thawr Slayer, Thawr Marauder, Thawr Queen

Maybe review the development that we have added so far to gain a better perspective as to what the madness is behind Ant's method for implementing content across locations, and how he does so to introduce everyone to what's available while also keeping to lore.

Your suggestions and feedback are very valuable, and while Ant or Kendra won't respond, they pay close attention to what you share, and take it to heart ... not all suggestions will make the cut, but those that do will be sorted over time, and like I have mentioned to you guys before ... this is not a full-time job for them, but knowing what other real life responsibilities they have, I'm mostly overwhelmed at how much they can get done every quarter.

Hang in there, know that you are being heard, and whatever is feasible and a good fit I'm sure Ant will give consideration to, but he also likes to throw in a surprise now and then too.

This is truly the grandest community and you all are deeply appreciated for not only the support you give us, but also for your enthusiasm for wanting to help evolve our locations into the future. Never fret, Toulan will get plenty of attention.

Love You Guys

 

[Synial]

There's a few posts here that essentially highlight my "issue" with Toulan, and they are all posted by different people with different perspectives, ped cycle, and playstyles.. this really makes for a good feedback thread from my pov because everyone is asking for the same thing - just in different words - and are trying to figure out how to get it... so this is probably my best opportunity to post this.

Wall of text blog post from me as usual, sorry (not sorry)

Health level: medium/tough (preferable over 1000 hp under 2500)
Damage potential: small/limited (as this would make people be able to be covered with rifi ME/baraka or similar) surely not over 40 dam
Stats are tricky since i dont know fully how they affect mobs, but stamina would be 100+ to get the hps up

Why are you all obsessed with bigger and bigger mobs? All they do is provide bigger stacks of shrap.

One of my problem is that most mobs on Toulan are low threat level, or more accurately, low level. And we all know what this means, even regardless of its HP count.

If there is going to be a elite mob of any kind it should drop different loot then the normal version of said mob.

They will also loot bigger amounts faster meaning us lower dps hunters have almost no chance.

As i said above, why a reheated mob?
Dsec has already reused microwaved mobs, and people pestering for bigger mobs have gotten the marauders already.
Are those being hunted extensively?
Have they brought anything new?

Toulan dosnt offer much to medium to high lvl players, especialy not those that seek to advance their avatars.

What i want to see is the following : Progress.

Progress in skillgains.
Progress in loot(able), both distribution and itemization. (i made up that word, hope you had your seabelt still).
Progress in the progress. Like, new stuffs that actually make sense of acquiring and justify sustained hunting.

There is activity for the mid-higher level player, but not yet at the level that is available on other planets. However, how many can easily take on the new higher level creatures we added not that long ago solo ... or, do you take the time to team them?

• Khaffash Slayer, Khaffash Marauder, Khaffash Queen
• Duhol Slayer, Duhol Marauder, Duhol Queen
• Thawr Slayer, Thawr Marauder, Thawr Queen

What they are looking for is segregated content.

There has been what seems to be a concerted effort to make content that goes into toulan/dsec be completely inclusive and be able to participated in by everyone.

Amazing textures. Full inclusivity. Hides available to everyone with mobs ranging from low-to-high HP and generally low damage.

Salafa. Full inclusivity. Tinctures available to everyone from monsters ranging from low-to-high HP and generally low damage.

Monthly events. Full inclusivity. Mobs available to everyone with mobs ranging from low-to-high HP and generally low damage. Shared Loot.

Mining. Full inclusivity. Using a mix-up of low level tools is generally better from an overall markup perspective.

DSEC1 Armor (this is DSEC, not Toulan, but am posting to illustrate a pattern): Full inclusivity. A literal new player can go kill caboria bots and loot armor and upgrade parts wanted by high-level players.

Full inclusivity sounds nice but what that really does is remove the players' ability to find a niche for themselves in the game (and economy). If everyone can do it without opportunity cost: the content becomes stale and devalued. There needs to be aspirational content. Likewise, content that actually provides no motivation for growth (or worse, discourages growth) should really not be a thing.


To elaborate using the list above from the lower level perspective:

1. Why should I kill mob X stalker maturity for hides if I can get them easier and cheaper from youngs? Is there anything else in the loot? Just a larger percentage of oil and shrapnel?
2. Why should I kill marauder/slayer/queens for tinctures if I can get them easier and cheaper from youngs? Is there anything else in the loot? Just a larger percentage of oil and shrapnel?
3. Why should I grow in skill and gear to kill monthly shared wave event mobs if I can assist (read: leach from) higher level players that are grinding and get the rare loots?
4. Why should I grow in mining skill if everything is at shallow depth and in some cases more available with trade terminal tools?
5. Why should I grow in skill and gear and go farm desirable items when I can kill caboria naked with my noob gun and sell armor and adjusted upgrade parts?

To elaborate using the list above from the higher level perspective (condensed version):

1. Why should I participate in content where my investment in gear and skill is rendered near worthless due to players with no investment drawing from the same resource/loot table from the same base mob type?
2. Why should I mine for resources that are available to someone with no skill and high abundance which therefore have limited markup since everyone can get it themselves easily?
3. Why should I cycle x per hour and meet the conditions for a certain item to drop to have it taken by someone cycling .01x that doesn't continue cycling after they loot the rare item?

To elaborate using the list above from the mindark balancing team perspective:

1. This planet partner has creative control of their content.
2. We will balance loot to match relative values across the universe. Their planet(s) do not exist in a vacuum.
3. They have proposed that the loot from this creature is on par in value with another creature in the universe that requires approximately 1000 times more investment - Therefore we will make the drop rate approximately 1000 times lower. (Caboria Bot VS Enslaved Daudaormur example [DSEC Armor Adjusted, 500GB HDD VS Gorgon Adjusted, Adjusted Daudaormur Fang]).

This is of course just a perspective piece. An opinion post with hypotheticals. I do hope it is at least in some way constructive and offers some insight into player perspective (or at least mine ). I do think DSEC part 2 was a great step in the right direction for obtaining a more "mainstream" and more appreciated position in the universe.

The tl:dr is, essentially: please make specialized content. The jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none, is probably not the way to go in a real cash economy where players are trying to get the best bang for their buck (imo). Definitely don't read this as "just cater to the uber crowd", either. Just maybe don't put the uber and noob crowd in the same room and have them fight over the same resources/content. I hope the caboria bot: daudaormur comparison really drove home a point.

 

[Heidi Stassinopolis]

Why should I mine for resources that are available to someone with no skill and high abundance which therefore have limited markup since everyone can get it themselves easily?

This is incorrect, not all the resources are low depth and the claim frequency seems to vary through the year, certainly toulan resources have a very healthy MU depending on the demand of crafters, I am guessing you are stating this based on old data. Also to contradict you for example Nawa Drops are low depth and easily found yet hold a MU over 115% consistantly so I would have to 100% disagree with your comments on Mining. You are forgetting that nearly all toulan loot and resources have a use for crafting which completely alters the MU. You are also forgetting that Toulan has redulite cave sap and azur pearl.

 

[Synial]

certainly toulan resources have a very healthy MU depending on the demand of crafters

Also to contradict you for example Nawa Drops are low depth and easily found yet hold a MU over 115% consistantly

You are also forgetting that Toulan has redulite cave sap and azur pearl.

This is really one of those posts that could be a multi-page debate and probably deserving of its own thread but I think there is a difference of perspective here. Perhaps for semantics sake I should have specified high-volume as well as high-level.

Really have to address this in a big picture format.

No, I didn't forget there was redulite, cave sap, and azur pearl - nor am I unaware of the recent shift (this VU) on calypso regarding resource caps that make it possible to gain higher yield of redulite and cave sap while using higher level amps. I'm also familiar with overall hit rate of cave sap, redulite, and azur on Toulan.

I don't disagree that resources have MU, but MU% is not the only relevant value.. sales volume is also important, as well as how much of your total mining yield comprises of the resource that does have sales volume.

Just mentioning nawa drops to me is akin to saying just go farm argus for pyrite. What about all the other materials that (as a collective yield) drag MU close to nothing, or worse, need to be put in the TT?

Depending on your perspective or playstyle, I really don't disagree with your point that, to paraphrase, "mining can be good on toulan". But from my point of view, there are WAY too many planet specific resources dropping that do not have enough demand from crafters to support high volume mining.

Toulan needs a mega resource sink, like a line of weapon/armor/finder enhancers that use planet specific ores/enmatter, or amps similar to D-Class - not one similar to level 3 like Sabad - and also not similar to Sabad in the sense that it requires WAAAAY too much aqeeq ore. No idea what is up with that.

I don't make complaint posts or really talk much in Toulan chat but I can assure you I've already "walked the walk" on Toulan and this isn't just a random 0 experience post.

I dunno how else I'd make my point other than by saying... is there anyone that wants to put their money where their mouth is? Would anyone like to buy about 10k ped of nawa drops, 3k+ of each maro, fairuz, aqeeq, mannoon, youd, sham, ghali? On a weekly basis? All or nothing - not looking to have to TT more than 70% of my yield. Maybe even a collective of crafters? Maybe even HALF of the proposed volume?

From previous experience I would say that the answer is a resounding no. And I am just one guy. Imagine if multiple high volume miners were on Toulan? It took me over a month to sell the nawa drops I mined within 3 days (I could sell fast but nawa drop markup wouldn't really exist anymore ... And as hally said above

Toulan dosnt offer much to medium to high lvl players, especialy not those that seek to advance their avatars.

Sitting on 20k ped of mining resources in your storage that you have to wait for 2 (or more) months to sell, and not having anything else to do on the planet that is at your level is a problem.

Some (most?) people would say "go to another planet" but I'm pretty sure this was an investment from the vs team and they actually want to make money and have player retention.

A lot of what I say is probably at odds with virtualsense development philosophy. Most of it is fully inclusive. But you see the same thing with every development startup. Well intentioned inclusivity with the inevitable shift to specialized content development cycles.

I dunno, it is like Hally said, some people will have ulterior motives and complain (or not complain) to get their way.

My ulterior motive is really just getting more playable, sustainable content. This was really the first opportunity I've seen to post some of this with context on these forums so I figured I'd post

Progress in the progress. Like, new stuffs that actually make sense of acquiring and justify sustained hunting.

 

[Heidi Stassinopolis]

You are talking as if Toulan is a multi server planet like Ark or Calypso, a single server planet is never going to to support the kind of mining you are talking about in my opinion, or crafting or hunting.

Toulan in a quickly developing economy and there is demand for the resourses, but it's not FOMA.

What you are talking about is far beyond a planet that currently only has 10 shops and a few shopkeepers in apartments and 2 - 3 traders.
But even though it is limited by it's size it feels like it has a more consistant growing economy than Ark which seems to have lost it's way.

Crafters do come to the planet regularly as I see it in my shop sales, but I agree 20k of nawa drops might take me a couple of months to sell but it WOULD sell and at good MU which is the important thing.

But this is all dependent on Bankroll size ped cycle etc etc.

However I agree that to make it sustainable there needs to be some more content and more content specific to higher level players.
I just don't see that there is enough room for it all on Toulan, maybe some out of the box thinking is needed on that score which Ant and the team have achieved by creating Dsec-9 etc.

It's not a simple quick fix obviously and lots needs to be explored.

Also as long as MA doesn't fix the loot return problem with instances then there's no point suggesting and uber instance for hunting.

Toulan needs a mega resource sink, like a line of weapon/armor/finder enhancers that use planet specific ores/enmatter, or amps similar to D-Class

I like this idea, I find it a PITA having to fly to RT to scrape up more alt or gears to make Dclass amps. I actually find it easier and more profitable to fly to caly and buy the amps in bulk to sell in my shop.

But my ulterior motive is due to being a shop owner on Toulan of course ;) if I hadn't got the shop then I would be more in line with your thinking possibly as I have scaled down my mining in the past year. But before opening the shop I did find it easy to sell my Toulan specific ore on the AH as there were often orders and if not then the stuff seemed to always sell. This is not the same now and I have to wonder if it has been influenced by me selling resources from the shop. Crafters come and buy and I am constantly restocking. Maybe they don't plae AH orders so much anymore? or maybe they have moved on. No idea honestly I'm just guessing.

I've lost my thread a bit here so I'll stop now lol

 

[Eleni Von Estlla]

I've already said most of what i sincerly thought, and i really want to avoid and try drown the fish.
But this thread is lifting a lot of critical and essential points.

I wont argue about mining, simply because i lack knowledge about this all, so thats all up to you guys.
Though i would agree that one of the main issue is indeed, space, as i mentioned above.
This could have been relieved in mining at Dsec9 for Toulan ressources, though it is not Toulan, and is indoor mining - so personally not my cup of tea.
New BPs like the mining amp do looks like we are headed toward mining ressource sink BPs, so hopefully we see more of those.



Anyhow, why i wanted to shime in again is, that this is basically Year-01 of Toulan developement under VS.
What i understand is that it all started from a dead rock.
Titan work that was ahead was to rebuild it all from ground up, re-purpose everything, and magically make stuffs drop again.
For this, it then, as a PP, would have unlocked the appeal to create a character on Toulan, and make it worth for new starters.

We have seen that through major developements indeed, targetted towards newbies:

• Begginers mission chain re-done.
• Jellies dropping from punies.
• Nawa drops replaced by nawa fragments at Temple. (now 1200% ~ 3000% cells)
• Major uses for sweat
• Fuses dropping from newbie mobs.
• Tinctures for which one of the most "powerful" and sought after ones frop from Lv3 mobs (or Cuhof 01)
• Dsec Armor and upgrade accessible from low level mobs
• Chance to loot an estate

As you can see, the idea, and i totally understand it, was to create an appeal for player to join, but also to stay, and have a chance to be successful ; thus creating a core of activity.
This, in my opinion, has been an undeniable success.




But what i personally want to target for Year~02 is now a bit of Love for us, advanced players.
Just like Lord Synial has rightfully mentioned, there should be a real motivator in Entropia, as a whole, to push toward skilling.
Spoon feeding newbies is nice and all, but when this comes at the cost and brings too much shadow on the higher level of play, this can becomes a problem.

I am pointing my finger at you, Lv3 Khaffash, again, dropping the second most powerful tincture. This did upset me, and thus removes all purpose as for hunting regular khaffashs - Let alone that those are hunted at the Temple, hence a bonus of 1500% for sitting around a nice cup of "dont-shoot-me-PvP" tea.
Drastic answer from Eleni : Make the Temple lootable PvP!

I am looking at indeed Event Wahesh, for which i refuse to take part, for the reason Lord Synial mentioned.

Jeefs Qaher and Duhols both have baby mobs tied to the storyline ; un-natural spawns, yet exploited for their loot table.
Another blow for higher hunting.

So we are basically left with Thawr, for Maga tincture, and Wahesh, for....
I am not too sure what is the loot table on baby Wahesh at Elara, since i litterally only spent 15min there, but i would be careful about this all.


All of this to point that, as Lord Synial mentioned, the Lotus temple is a proof that things are going the right way - Added to that, looter skill inside the instance have been approuved, so this is pretty amazing!
This happened in December, so i am here crossing my fingers that we keep looking into something more.. advanced.
Dsec is personally not my cup of tea, mostly because shrapnels, but this is personal, and a decent amount of people seems to be active in there - so lets say its just a Mayhem for which high end reward is a Hazen set.
I can understand that.

Last point and i shush it, is that in the VS Christmas Wishes, it has been indeed mentioned that, despites the strong will to release super items, theres a universe-wide balance to respect.
I of course understand that, completely, so should we all.
I would rather be able to loot a super UL item, rather than a puny UL.


So all of this to highlight that, it has only been a year into the developement, and major things have been done - yes, toward the newbies, but in the order of priorities, it totally makes sense.
Now lets try and get the second year non-newbies exclusive, with the same quality with which last year has been thought and through.

I hope this makes sense,
E~