Monrian Born - Sweat Purchase Program Daily Quest

[Dor DorAl Alon]

Hi,

First I would like to say that I am a very proud Monria Born player and that I decided to be Monria Born after a lot of research mainly due to Monria offering the Sweat Purchase Program as described here.

Thank you very much @Gatekeeper and @RosaRaine Buns .
You both made all the difference and made me want to stick to the game!


A bit of background that prompted my suggestion:

Due to my own Time-Zone constraints I'm usually unable to meet neither @Gatekeeper nor @RosaRaine Buns during the work-week (they are online either when I'm sleeping or when I'm at work - sometimes both!).

As a result of that and of myself being a swunter by heart I often find myself accumulating high amount of sweat for long periods of time without the ability to sell it to either one of them (per the program constraints I can sell only 3K sweat per day that I actually meet one of them - which usually translates to 6-9K sweat per week due to my Time-Zone issues).

Having this issue I thought that it might be a good idea to suggest that the Sweat Purchase Program will be turned into a daily quest that will be available only to Monria-Born players.

Roaming this forum I encountered this thread which suggested adding a daily quest for converting sweat for universal ammo.

My suggestion:
I think combining the two ideas together will be a great idea.
We can have a NPC that offers a daily quest (reset every midnight MA time) which prompts the player to give him exactly 3K sweat and in return gives the player 6 PED of Universal Ammo.

The quest should be limited to Monria Born players (you can check if the player has Monria Born shirt in his items for example if you don't have another way to know) and should have weekly "budget" that will display "out of budget - come back on the 1st of next month" message to the players where applicable.

If you decide to go with this idea then you get the following benefits:
1. Monria Born players can sell 3K sweat every 24 hours only on Monria soil and regardless of their time-zone.
2. No Monria Born player will be able to sell more than 3K on the same day (for example 3K to @Gatekeeper and another 3K to @RosaRaine Buns assuming he met them both when they weren't online together) - unfortunately I did that when I didn't know I wasn't supposed to - I'm very sorry about that! won't happen again!!! .
3. Monria Born players will be encouraged to use the Universal Ammo to hunt\mine on Monria (instead of getting the peds and buying something in Calypso AH for example) which in turn will increase Monria profits from their hunting\mining activity taxes (those players can still sell the loot they get from Hunting using the universal ammo in order to buy whatever they wanted from Calypso AH).


The only MAJOR down side I can see for this suggestion is that I won't talk to @Gatekeeper and @RosaRaine Buns as much


That concludes my suggestion for today.

Thank you very much for everything!


**EDIT**
PS
I'm a software developer by profession and I implemented similar quest on another open source MMO server in the past.
I'm not familiar with the API nor the limitations imposed on Monria from server\coding aspects but I'm more than happy to brain-storm if needed.

 

[Noz]

Nice idea, only downside i can see is people will buy sweat on caly at 1.5 per k, then ship to monria on travel program for cheap ammo. Where there is a possibility to exploit people will.

You can also sell your daily sweat allowance to your monrian mentor, who can then get refunded for this. at least that used to be the case. Need confirmation if it still is i guess.

 

[Dor DorAl Alon]

Nice idea, only downside i can see is people will buy sweat on caly at 1.5 per k, then ship to monria on travel program for cheap ammo. Where there is a possibility to exploit people will.

What mechanic stops them from doing that right now?
As far as I know @Gatekeeper and @RosaRaine Buns can't tell if a Monrian Born player sweated mobs or purchased the sweat when he sells it to them even now.

Something can be considered "downside" only if it introduces something bad that didn't exist...

Keep in mind that the daily quest still imposes the same limitation as the Sweat Purchase Program does right now with the small difference that now the player gets ped that he can ship back to Calypso to purchase more sweat where using the quest he'll get non-tradeable universal ammo that he won't be able to use to purchase more sweat.

If anything this should be considered an upside when compared to the current system and not a downside.

When coupled with the fact that @Gatekeeper and @RosaRaine Buns aren't always on at the same time then such a player who lives in the correct time-zone can currently sell 6K sweat per day for 12 PED which will net him 3 PED profit per day.
If we'll implement the quest than the same person will be limited to 3K sweat per day for 6K universal ammo which will net him only 1.5 PED profit in the form of non-tradable universal ammo.

The more I think about it, the more I see it as an upside compared to the current program.

You can also sell your daily sweat allowance to your monrian mentor, who can then get refunded for this. at least that used to be the case. Need confirmation if it still is i guess.

My mentor (he's great BTW) is usually not on Monria so that isn't possible.

 

[Kendra]

Hi DorAl

That is a great idea and we love to get such good ideas that can improve gameplay for everybody

However, we do the Sweat purchase program off our own bat using our own PED, and pay way over the
current player market odds for this Sweat (remember it is the players that pay for the sweat not MA).
This is to make it easier for our very small community to make some profit in this harsh environment.
And ;unfortunately; as Noz correctly pointed out it is also open to abuse by non ethical players.
Baring both these points in mind, it would be impossible for Mind Ark to hard wire this
sort of community initiative into the game itself as this would effectively give Sweat a huge price
(which in reality is near zero at the moment).

But please keep the ideas coming. We take everything on board and it is fantastic to have such a broad scope of
ideas to draw from.

Thanks a mill

 

[Darth Revan Reborn]

It would be impossible for Mind Ark to hard wire this
sort of community initiative into the game itself as this would effectively give Sweat a huge price
(which in reality is near zero at the moment).

Impossible it's a bit of a strong word, highly unlikely maybe... however it is possible. Instead of using UA as the reward, you could easily change that to different types of weapons. MA could make weapons that have a low pec/ped value (look at the rubio that's 9pec or the ELM weapons that are 1ped as examples) and use a trade of say 1000 sweat (or more) for a weapon. Or maybe do a "sweat token" for 1000 sweat that can then be used to purchased weapons/armor, etc from a token trader...like the Caly daily tokens. Again make these low tt and not last super long.

There are a ton of ways that you could look at to do something like this, i think it would come down to how much would MA charge to make this and what the potential ongoing cost would be.

Note - It would bring people to Monria if it was the only place that had the NPC/token trader...and while they are there they may just spend some ped.

 

[DarkMoonEnigma]

DorAl brought his idea to me in the game with regard to a sweat daily. I said that I liked the idea and that he should come to the forum and post his idea in the Suggestions section of the forum, which he has. I wasn't quite sure what all the dynamics would be, or how it would affect various operations, even though I think I understood where DorAl was headed.

I wanted to wait a bit before weighing in here to see what others in the community had to say first. In reviewing everything that has been presented thus far, there's one factor that hasn't been addressed. Where does the sweat go when turning it into an NPC, or some system that might become a daily sweat operation? Does it go to us, does it go to MA, or just disappear into thin air? I'm bringing this up for one main reason ...

The sweat buying program was designed for our Monrian Born specifically to help extend their playing time, but Gatekeeper has flexibility with 25% of his funding budget for non-Monrian Born, and Rosa is strictly Monrian Born. Collecting sweat from our Monrian Born through the sweat buying program is also very beneficial because we use it in crafting our Monria Boxing Gloves BPs. In addition to this, we have plans for utilizing sweat in future development, so something to think about.

There's also the question of balance, as well as the potential for abuse which was already brought up. I am not very well versed on the mechanics of the game, nor what would be easy or difficult for MA to implement, but I've gotten more of an introduction of this based on what we would like to implement from our own ideas for Monria.

I think the one person who would definitely have specific thoughts about this idea would be Ant, so hopefully he will find a bit of time to pop in here to give his take on this idea.

 

[Darth Revan Reborn]

Where does the sweat go when turning it into an NPC, or some system that might become a daily sweat operation? Does it go to us, does it go to MA, or just disappear into thin air?

Essentially, the sweat should just go back into the pool...if there even is a pool for sweat. Which is one reason why changing it into UA would not work and would most likely be exploited. Sweat doesnt really have a value or it has a low value like 0.00001 or something like that. It's the players that have put a value of between 1-2ped on the sweat.
So if you were to implement the sweat -> UA ...then it would cost Ant every time and most likely MA would not implement it at all.

So when coming up with a system, you have to provide an alternative that has little to no PED value as an exchange, which is why i suggested the tokens as you can give them a 0.00ped value. Essentially Ant could pay MA to have x amount of weapons available and each weapon costs x amount of tokens. Once the weapons are gone from the trader, they would not replenish until it has been used, generating a cycle of use. Of course this is then open to hording by players in hopes of selling, so maybe have the weapons as account bound to stop that? (not that i like account bound stuff...but if you are trying to help newbies who will use the weapons then this would be a good idea).

 

[Dor DorAl Alon]

Baring both these points in mind, it would be impossible for Mind Ark to hard wire this
sort of community initiative into the game itself as this would effectively give Sweat a huge price

Not necessarily.
Please allow me to clarify:
The quest NPC can be coded to only allow the quest if "he has money".
As you mentioned:

we do the Sweat purchase program off our own bat using our own PED

Continuing with this frame of mind you still need to give your own PED to the NPC so it'll allow players to do the daily quest.
You can also change the limits just like you do now (where @Gatekeeper and @RosaRaine Buns buy at most 3K per day from each player and are subject to a monthly budget).

That quest NPC will have the same limits as @Gatekeeper and @RosaRaine Buns has now but it won't be limited to a narrow time-zone.
As an example I've been swunting Shoggoths on Monria for at least 5 hours every day and I haven't been able to sell a single K of sweat to either one of them all week (I know @RosaRaine Buns was away but even if she were in Monria than I was able to even see her online ONCE and that time was when I woke up at 3AM...).

Having the quest only available to Monria Born players and limited by the amount of PED you actually put into it (it won't be a daily that is always active) than I don't see how it changes the price of sweat.
If for any reason you may want to change the program sweat price than you should be able to do that as well using the same mechanics.

All the suggestions I made above can be easily achieved by a professional programmer (I personally did something simliar in the past) and shuldn't affect anything that isn't already affected by the current sweat purchase program (with the exception that it will be available to the minority in different time zones like myself).

Noz correctly pointed out it is also open to abuse by non ethical players.

The current program is open to the exact same abuse multipled by 2 (unethical players can sell 3k sweat to both @Gatekeeper and @RosaRaine Buns every day).
The quest system will reduce their benefit from such unethical act (they'll get untradeable universal ammo instead of PED) and won't allow them to sell 6K sweat per day.

If you want you can even add "black list" of players that won't be allowed to do the quest because you caught them performing "unethical acts" as well which will make the quest even more secure against such an act than the current program.

I wanted to wait a bit before weighing in here to see what others in the community had to say first. In reviewing everything that has been presented thus far, there's one factor that hasn't been addressed. Where does the sweat go when turning it into an NPC, or some system that might become a daily sweat operation? Does it go to us, does it go to MA, or just disappear into thin air? I'm bringing this up for one main reason ...

Considering the idea of the NPC is that he'll be supplied with PED by you (or by @Kendra) than I think it should go to "the NPC bag" which you and\or Kendra can access.
Think of the NPC like a shop that sells universal ammo and charges sweat as "currency".
You and\or @Kendra will be the "shop owner".
You'll add the universal ammo to the "items for sale" (by charging the NPC with PED) and you'll collect the "payment" in the form of sweat.

This is nothing more than an advanced shop that has limited budget and allows limited purchases per 24 hours for players with Monrian Born status (or Monrian shirt).

I think the one person who would definitely have specific thoughts about this idea would be Ant, so hopefully he will find a bit of time to pop in here to give his take on this idea.

I would love to discuss this idea with him in more details from a software developer (and Monrian Born) perspective.

I believe that most of the issues described above can be solved completely and the minority that can't be solved completely can still provide an improvement when comparing it to the current sweat purchase program.


The only reason I chose Monria as my home planet was the sweat purchase program.
At the time I didn't knew it was a time-zone specific program

Just so you understand the magnitude of the last statement a little bit of my history in the game.
I had an account on Calypso from several years ago which I grew tired of relatively fast because it was hard to progress.
After I decided to try the game again I did a lot of research and found the Monrian Born Sweat Purchase Program and understood the magnitude of how it will help me.
Being a "Calypso Born" account that wasn't eligible for the program I contacted Calypso support and asked them to delete my original account just so I could be a Monrian Born player.
I have not regreted that decision since.
With that said, not being able to sell any sweat all week even when I'm swunting at least 5 hours every day is a big disappointment for me
Currently the sweat purchase program punishes players from different time zones because it doesn't allow them to sell sweat on a weekly limit basis (I usually see either @Gatekeeper or @RosaRaine Buns during the weekends when I'm not working so selling 21K sweat once a week equals selling 3K once per day).
I'm disappointed by this punishement that is imposed on me just because I live in a different country then the rest of you (but I still enjoy the game and have no intention to quit).

 

[Darth Revan Reborn]

Currently the sweat purchase program punishes players from different time zones
I'm disappointed by this punishement that is imposed on me just because I live in a different country then the rest of you

The sweat buying initiative is a GENEROUS gesture that Ant operates, it should in no way be considered a punishment.
No other planet partner or MA offer anything like this.

There is always a way to help out members in other time zones, I'm sure some sort of arrangement can be made but you should never say they are punishing you for something they are providing out of their own pocket.

You are currently on now, Ive seen Gatekeeper on around this time as well, just not every day.

 

[Dor DorAl Alon]

The sweat buying initiative is a GENEROUS gesture that Ant operates, it should in no way be considered a punishment.

You misread my statement.
The punishment I refered to is the inability to benefit from that program because of my time zone.

The program itself is generous and I stated that I acknowledge its benefits myself:

understood the magnitude of how it will help me.

You are currently on now, Ive seen Gatekeeper on around this time as well, just not every day.

I'm currently on because it's the weekend already (it's the middle of the night here).

PS
Just so there won't be any misunderstandings.
I'm grateful for everything that is being done.
I acknowledge and appreciate the fact that nobody has to help new players and yet Monria management team along with @Gatekeeper and @RosaRaine Buns decided that they WANT to help new players.

I told both @Gatekeeper and @RosaRaine Buns on more than one occation that they are a big part of the reason why I enjoy this game so much and that feeling haven't changed!

 

[Eugenio Anhithe Wilde]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

The main purpose of the sweat buying program is to help new players along in their early journey and to give Monrian borns the chance to experience Entropia Universe and have enough play time to decide whether to stick around or not. We try to make this as fair as possible but its really hard to get it perfect and it's also administered through players who volunteer their time so timezone is definitely something we'll have to look into and see if we can figure out a way around this.

It takes time but I am trying to find ways to make sweat more useful on Monria, this is why we have the sweat as an ingredient in the boxing gloves. I'd also like to find other ways of making sweat useful if I can, if for no other reason than I have a few millions bottles myself and can't seem to craft enough to keep up with demand!

On the automated system one of the main challenges here would be the abuse factor. A sweat dispenser could encourage second avatars, hoarders of sweat, re selling and people selling sweat the second the timer is re set (assuming a daily amount) and there being none left for anyone else. These bring complexity into the solution and then increases the dev effort and it would be impracticable for support to be constantly screening for alts etc. So things like this need to be either completely abuse free or with an acceptable level of abuse I guess. I think this would be difficult to implement in a manner that is abuse free.

Changes like this are platform changes and although not impossible it is something that would typically take longer to get into development as it would be the same resources used for new professions and other platform type development. It would also be something that would need to be agreed in the context of the platform and not just Monria.

I quite like the personal approach as even though technically it could be open to abuse our closeness to the community and knowing everyone on Monria gives me a very good handle on who is on the Moon. We have a great advantage in this regard.

Saying all that I do think it's a good idea and we should perhaps explore it more, doesn't necessarily need to be an npc and I can't guarantee I can get anything done here, lots of my ideas don't get past concept stage for one reason or another but I would definitely like more use for sweat, reasons to buy sweat and ways to help sweaters sell their sweat.

Ant

 

[Naming Policy Violation]

I buy sweat from my disciples @ 2PED/K up to 20k a week, so they don't turn into resellers

Have you gotten mentor on Monria? I'm sure he will buy that sweat np, instead waiting for 2 people beeing online. Unless one the two is your mentor